This is really cool and thought provoking. I tend to think that religion only works when you can develop a personal relationship with God. Define him yourself, and you can’t go wrong!

Me, I worship flow. That’s like God’s big toe. Hey, it’s only a big toe, but it’s still a piece of God.

John Dale
RedEndo BMX
Curbrider LLC

that was easily the most boring thing ive ever seen on TCU

Another thought – obedience to God, it would seem, is the same kind of ritual as lighting candles. It is an outward expression of adherence to a ritual. The ritual happens to includes obedience.

When I was in High School, I think I found a really nice piece of God with a girl named Rauchelle.

I still have Bully’s “Slow Ride” on tape. I love the DB part…

John Dale
RedEndo BMX
Curbrider LLC

you are a bunch of weak fucks !! we are all just roadkill !! except it an live your life… bible bashing faggots

Holy shit! That was a lot of crap in 6 minutes!
Seems like he believes in God only because he wants to get to heaven.

and who’s the one getting all upset here and bashing others, wouldn’t that make you the “bashing faggot?” look in the mirror dudes before you comment.

Awesome Vic! Keep the TRUTH coming!

jesus and god or whoever, can go fuck themselves.

i dont beleive in fairy tales . its silly to think theres another world or “heaven” its all bullshit to keep people in line . this guy needs to grow up , you die you die . nothing after

Thanks for posting this vid! Vic is the man! try to watch the whole video, it really isn’t that long, he’s just showing how being religious and being a Christian are two separate things.

Yeah keep your head up whoever watches this and agrees with it.
god bless anyone who watches it, I hope it speaks to everyone.
I appreciated what he said and if you hate this, sorry for yuh.

so carrying ones self as religious is no means to salvation except salvation through religion? this strikes me as a circular argument. Absolute faith is the only path to salvation that can only occur when acceptance of contradictory scripture as opposed to absolutely following contradictory customs? I’m gonna call bullshit.

stick to the bike flips, vic.

i know this jesus character. he’s a pederass. really. he did 8 years up chino….fuckin 8yearolds..will he be wearing that purple one piece boeling outfit when i bust into heaven?

i know this jesus character. he’s a pederass. really. he did 6 years up chino….fuckin 8yearolds..will he be wearing that purple one piece bowling outfit when i bust into heaven?

OVER THE LINE!

I think you are just misunderstanding what hes talking about when he says “religion”. When he talks about religion hes talking about mans attempts to become holy through an action or ritualist act. We cannot earn our way into being a “good person”! We have all failed to be free of sin so therefore we are all equally guilty. God, because He does love us, has made a way for us to be cleaned up of our sin. And that is only through belief that Jesus paid the price for OUR sins the day He died on the cross, and turning from our sin to follow HIS way.
This is not religion!
It is a historical fact that Jesus Christ lived, taught, was murdured and hung on a cross, and its been recorded by over 500 witnesses that He rose from the dead. It takes faith to believe that Jesus was who He said He was. So we need faith to accept this FREE GIFT of eternal life!

So basically this is a rant about how one false belief is better than another false belief. The undertones of his argument seem to be prejudice against muslims as well. Isnt there something in the bible about accepting others for who they are and welcoming people of all faiths? or has that been tossed to the side along with scientific knowledge and reason.

First of all, I am the same Chris that wrote that sort-of long comment in that Shawn Butler video a few weeks ago: http://thecomeupbmx.net/videos/shaun-butler-speaks-on-jesus#comments So there’s a bit of my background, which isn’t religious at all.

Second, after watching this video and paying very close attention to what you are saying… I am fucking INSULTED!!! You should feel ashamed… for more than a few reasons.

1. You completely downed religious practice.
2. You make blatant contradictions numerous times.
3. Your idea of what is, and isn’t, is false.
4. You clearly have not studied any of the world’s religions besides your own, which is the reason your sound like an arrogant fool.
5. You should never be allowed to preach your word to anyone because you will ruin people’s lives if they believe what you say.
6. You are a dummy. you said it yourself.

STOP what you are doing right now and study every religion in this world including their history and evolution.
DO NOT speak to anyone about religion under any circumstances. Ever.

With that being said, Here is a link to a video of Sam Harris. He is the best. I strongly suggest everyone (believer or non-believer) watch this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6734321991450996691&ei=VkwgS8f_J4maqAOAxPCLDw&q=sam+harris#

ahh nice marmot

I saw santa claus last year

I saw santa claus last year, he was at the mall

bmx + bibles = bad times.

yo god is gay. Athiests are gay. Their extreme lack of religion and outward hatred in an attempt to sound smarter and cooler than others is so whack It’s a religion itself. Live life. Thats it.

im sure at least 500 people said they saw this too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nda_OSWeyn8

you gotta believe my brothas!

Actually, the Bible definitely doesn’t say arything like that at all! I don’t know what Bible you are reading… What Jesus actualy DID say was that He was the only Way into heaven(John 14:6)! This is why he was murdered!!! And murdered by the religious zealots of that time! Jesus claimed to have the power to forgive sins! And many many people have been documented witnessing Him doing countless miracles.

“Seek and you will find”— Jesus, regarding th Truth.

Don’t seek the truth and you won’t find any, thats for sure

fairy tales and psychological disorders….

religion sucks.
neither god nor satan exists.
so gett off your knees and live your life for you.

“I’m so gay i suck it hard” – jesus, regarding a very large cock
don’t suck and it won’t get hard, thats for sure

So you are saying that you are going to make yourself your own god? Maybe the creator of this beautiful earth is worthy of being your God

Nobody fucks with the jesus

Religion is so lame. It saddens me to see people that base everything they do and every decision they make on the standards of something that doesnt even exist. Funny thing is most religious people are religious because their parents forced them into it at a young age so its what they naturally think is right. People need to step back and think about what the fuck they are doing. I mean, how someone could believe there is some guy floating around in space judging you and watching your every move to decide if you can come into “heaven” or not is beyond me.

fuck religion.
religion is hate

if Jesus was real and had a big dick i would suck it.

why is it so hard to believe in Jesus if many believe the big bang theory and other things in science such as that. Jesus Christ was an actual man Fact! He Lived Fact! He was crucified Fact! And according to many witnesses he rose from the dead. Next, they’ve found Noah’s Ark and have confirmed this.Surely it just can’t be a coincidence that they found an Ark exactly that of Noah’s from the same one spoken of in the Bible. The same things that were said to happen in the last days on Earth are happening now, so clearly it just can’t be a coincidence. There’s just too many connecting that of the Bible times to that of the now times. What Vic said is a hundred percent true. There are Christians and then their are Christans. One Christian actually believes in Christ and knows he’s the only way into heaven while others worry about stupid things as small as it’s evil to wear a hat on in church and only come so they feel good about themselves. Chirst is my savior and i know where im going after i die. I feel sorry for those who don’t.

Is this the real Steven Hamilton???

the only thing vic murphy seems to be good for are tabletops

I had to stop at 0:51 to keep from losing total respect for Vic. His tabletops will never lose my respect though.

yes being religious can be lame, thats what Vic is saying in this video. and there are plenty of people who grew up living a non-Christian life and later decided to try and follow Christ! my question is, how is it easier to believe that all of this came from nothing? You gotta step back and think about that one, does it make more sense that there is a supreme designer, or a magical big bang from nowhere… both sound pretty crazy… I dont know haha

2:41 is all i needed to hear and is by far the most important part to get across

might as well believe in a tea cup floating in outer space.
“the god delusion”
read it

yes, there is a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.

yes, yes thats believable

so a few thousand years of religious tradition, education and adherence to scripture is trumped by a group of uneducated evangelicals. ok.

so you seriously believe a dude put every living thing ever on a boat…. you have no common sense, try logical thinking.

god is just as real as the easter bunny, the tooth fairy and all those other stories.
dont base your judement on something imaginary.

I looked at half of the vid. I got the gist of it within the 1st minute. I share a lot in common with you. You are intelligent. ..As for ‘religion’ in general… as the world knows it, its just horrible. Because all religions except for one are False. So for the most part im with you. False religion does deserve not to be supported.

The truth is God did not abandon us. In the Hebrew Scriptures he did have an organized religion we can call it. It was the nation of Israel with all the laws and commandments they needed to follow.

When Jesus came to earth, he too was organized. For example he sent out his followers in groups of two and gave them a territory in which to preach, and explained how they would go about doing that. At that time his followers were not called ‘Christians’. They were simply followers of ‘the way’. And again… There is only one way.. the right way.

Lets not forget all the bible books written by Paul. He was writing to support and encourage congregations. Not just one individual. As much as people want to believe they can serve God all alone… They couldn’t properly do it… it’s not scriptural.

“And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.” – Hebrews 10:24,25

This vid was made to encourage? Or more to discourage? If the former, then why speak out and try to reach others? That would be the start of a congregation, no?

do yo remember what you were before you were born? of course not look forward to it when you die!

Thank you omg. You have summarized the absurdity of theistic views.

I don’t know if any of you religious types have heard of the game “telephone,” but it is played in elementary schools all over the world. You tell someone something, then you pass the phrase in a circle and laugh at how distorted it is when it returns to the originator. If you consider the effect such a simple exercise has on the content of a phrase, you must lack any capacity for reasoning if you believe a story book that is hundreds of years old, and has admittedly been re-edited thousands of times, to contain accurate accounts of real life.

Religion was created to initiate a hierarchy in society, and it worked. It suppresses critical thought and discourages education for the masses, since the man with the funny hat claims to have a direct link to the jewish zombie. Wake up morons.

All religions without exception are false. May God strike me down if I am lying…

…still alive. Not only that, I have stood in several churches and denied the existence of God. Again…I am still alive, hale and healthy.

No if you don’t mind, I’m off to worship at the church of the flying spaghetti monster.

religion in general is to comfort fear. and what is the greatest fear of all, the fear of the unknown, DEATH!

and yes i am eating a fuckin cheese burger on friday!

GAY FOR SATAN!!!!

so “500″ witnesses from OVER 2000 yrs ago is what i’m supposed to believe when THE Bibe was written around 200 yrs after Jesus’ death/ressurection, by people who weren’t alive when this supposedly happened…..

Actually, the last book of the Bible was written around 60 years after Jesus was crucified. There are 66 seperate books in the Bible, and most of the Bible was written before Jesus was born. The seperate books were put together into one book, what we now call the Bible, a few hundred years after that.
It’s easy to be a critic when you don’t look into anything.

haha… religious tradition that man set-up?? Of course that would get trumped by Gods design(the Bible talks about this throughout the epistles)

is bmx really becoming this way? what started out as a counter culture, now embracing what may possibly be the most main stream thing in the world?… i really dont know any more. kids who watch this….please dont fall into religion because some of your fav riders do.. make you own choices…hell anyone who knows who vic murphy is is old enough to know better but… well… this is the most disheartening thing ive ever seen on a bmx site. like… im really speechless. seperation of bmx and church…. that… or start posting satanic church shit. i didnt think this was fox news. goodnight.

I’m not to sure what you mean? “Religion” has nothing to do with congregations. This video was filmed at a congregation. We love and encourage the building of Christ following congegations! The word religion, is a very tricky word. I can see how this can be taken wrong. But when most people think or talk about religion it usually refers to the acts that we do to try to earn holiness. We cannot earn our way to heaven in any sense. God knew this, and thats why He did the only thing He could do- Send His Son to die for our sins!

I would encourage you to watch the second half of the video

Dude, research the validity of the Bible. It has never been “edited” as you might suppose. There are source texts written in Greek and Hebrew and people have been translating those texts into hundreds of languages. The Bible has been consistant since it as written(with the exceptions of cults that add or edit the Bible for their own wack aggendas). Most Bible scolars learn Greek and Hebrew so they can read the original text because its easier to understand when you know the languages.

Maybe God loves you enough to keep giving you chances to submit to Him? Maybe He loves you enough to die on the cross in your place so that if you accept Him that He will cover your sins?

you really have no idea what youre talking about do you?
please, keep these uneducated comments to yourself, youre making atheists look bad.

that was directed at “max”

This isn’t the legendary Steven Hamilton by the way. This kid just has the same name.

Just wanted to clear that up.

12345

Where is his other draw string for his hoodie? Did Satan take it?

lol at you making an emo comment, telling kids not to “fall into religion”, when the video is actually about staying away from religion. please people, at least spend 6 minutes of your time before you start getting emo. and then you say “start posting satanic church shit”, like the come up doesnt post up anything anti-God ever. it’s the come up, and this is a free country, these bloggers can post up whatever they choose.

“make you own choices”

Following Christ is a choice?

i wont lie, if the bible did not prophecy the end from the beginning, i would probly have not believed it in the first place. the only tihngs that count in an argument are FACTS guys. (this is for religious ppl and those opposed). FACT: the dead sea scrolls prove that the old testament was written over 2500 years ago. FACT: God prophecied, through daniel, and told him specific details about: the fall of babylon, the rise of persia, greece, rome, and the pope, in succession WITH DATES. obviously these things hadn’t happened, and couldnt have been written after because the dead sea scrolls prove the time this was written.he also told of the end times, which i personally believe will come true, considering that everything else has thus far.
>>>> so, if that isnt irrefutable evidence, idk what is.

really its up to your own personal decision.
i hope nobody gets the idea that christianity is all about calling other religions false.
but in the end, it IS about seeking what is TRUTH.
evolution’s still a theory btw.

FACT: atheists will cry when they read your last sentence. theory is a pretty big thing, meaning there are some truths to it, but the problem is, these truths do not factually explain how the universe began, or how cells, animals, etc. could truly evolve from one species to another. Natural Selection for example, shows how one species of birds will change from big to small, but if you need proof of that bird changing to another animal, good luck. Thanks topher, now I’m making them cry, I can hear them now.

only in america

HEY WATCH A MOVIE CALLED ZEITGEIST ON YOUTUBE IT’S BANNDED IN AMERICA FOR A VERY GOOD REASON , YOU TOO VIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus hates pussies Vic or no

jesusis the most quoted prophet in the kuhran…. I’, m running out of energy and i am kc badger

‘BELIEVE’

the moment you pick up your bmx for the first time- that when you should fuck off all this religous shit! religion is getting old – yawn

“im really speechless. seperation of bmx and church…. that… or start posting satanic church shit. i didnt think this was fox news. goodnight.”

-rattlemoss

best quote in here

this is hilarious. im storing this in my memory for later when collections come around haha

the german philosopher Hegel stated something along the lines of “man created god as a perfect being – devoid from all imperfection. As such, he created a state of being that is impossible to ever truly attain. At the base of humanity we are imperfect”. this is what i think Vic is saying in his own way. religion – christianity or otherwise should be about the mental connection one has with their spiritual self and their ‘god’. it shouldnt be about the stigmas and material state that religion has become. we are not perfect and ultimately religion was created to help deal with our imperfection in omnipotent unknowing. I strongly disagree with anyone who thinks their religion is the one true religion. that is stupid. no one is going to your ‘hell’ because they dont believe ‘Jesus was our saviour’. religiong has lost its connection with spirituality and he personal mental journey. believe what you want and dont prevent others from believeing in what they want. accept that you are imperfect and embrace spirituality as a way to deal with it.

The situation, as is so often the case, comes down do an impurity of terminology. Take politeness: if we are too polite to someone, it comes across as rude (condescending, perhaps). To be religious to the utmost one starts to question the nature of religion itself, and one is obliged to recognize that religion is a contingent set of historically founded categories, and that its following (just like politeness, friendship, bmx) is to do with attaching oneself to certain RITUALISTIC signifiers.
Further: Should lots of people take this gentleman seriously, his own spin on religion would become ‘truth’ in the general sense and no doubt someone would in turn rise up and act against it. We have an elastic and contingent possibility of infinite knowledge and finite/synchronic truth.
No hate just love for ya n*gga
xxxxxxxx
REPPIN THE LOST SOULS

Do watch it.

Religion is gayer than AIDS…

John, i couldn’t agree with you more! Here is where i’m at > I grew up in a Christian home, went to church till i was bout 16 then rebelled, became addicted to drugs for 5 years, went back to church, things changed for the better (probably more coz i wasnt taking drugs than anything else, however, its not the worst environment and there is something to be learned) then i went to Bible college, studied theology then left the church again. I believe in God 100%, i believe that creation is too perfectly designed for it to be left to chance! However, when it comes to religion, religious acts, denominations and all things to do with peoples understanding of what God meant i loose all respect for it! God in my opinion had a much bigger picture for humanity than what came out. For a so called ‘loving God’ he seems to be very specific in who he wants in (according to the christian church) and if u look at the statistics, i think that the majority of people in this earth are not quite good enough! So i looked at my mates, my skater friends, my BMX friends, my work friends, who are all great people, but because they don’t say a prayer and accept this historical figure into their ‘hearts’ that they are not good enough and are evil to the core? Well, im sorry but i cannot and will not accept this. As u read down u will see some points made about the time the bible was written and how long it took to come together! Well here is some informations that christians dont know (because ignorance really is bliss) The first english translation of the bible was done in the 1600′s by king james, this is common knowledge, but in translation from the original greek language, and because it was done by a human (and humans make mistakes) there was a good load of mistakes made, but hey, these things happen, but do u know just how many mistakes the CHURCH ‘AGREED’ to there being? over 70,000! So when man puts so much faith in this ‘guide book’ (thats so clearly wrong in so many places) u can maybe see where some of the problems start?! Written by man, improvised by man, even made up by man, im thinking that maybe the whole point of Gods plan was twisted and lost somehow?!

So who is to stay that people who worship the wind, the rain or even candles are doing it wrong and are ultimately evil? Maybe they have a bigger and better understanding of Gods creation?! One God many ways of worshiping? I think that there is a God, and i think that its up to us to be ‘good people’ because in being ‘good’ we are closer to what God intended, rather than singling people out as not good enough because the dont sing from the same hymn book!

Over.

im not a religous person, but i did see a lot of truth in what has been said here, evryone has the ability to be good or bad inside them its jus to how you choose to actin your life, if there is a such a god he doesnt want u to follow rules nd and be confined into a lil box or no one wld fit in it.

treat life like a journey u get out what you put in, treat people wit respect whatever their views nd enjoy it while it last cos u dont know what will happen 2moz

peace

12345

Shaun should take some notes.

burn those churches down and build some nice ramps on that ground.
because bmx is the only true religion.

my excuse would be: those sons of bitches did exactly the same shit in ancient times.

they in fact destroyed other churches/ or places where people with a different mindset gathered, which weren’t conform to their beliefs, and replaced them with their own church, _on the exact same ground_ to push their claim, and to vanish the beliefs of other cults/ religions which were a big thorn in their asses.

they did a excellent job doing so,
we all can see the outcome of it today.

happy winter solstice everybody.

religion isn’t peace but war.
politicians keep you poor and the so called saints dumb

fuck offf i see vic murphy as a legend but now he just sucks…i hate stupid ppl who need to bring jesus into bmx fuck offf

vic basically just bashed everyone but born again christians…

where do i sign up?? and who is the next oil tycoon we are voting for???

I feel that the bottom line has to be that no one can purport to know more than any other about what happens after death. We’re all just floating along with the same basic level of understanding and anyone who thinks their level of comprehension is greater than anyone else’s is lying to themselves. As for creation, pull your heads out of your asses. There’s too much incontrovertible scientific evidence that shows our world to be millions of years older than the bible describes. Whether or not the bible as written today can account for historical occurrences is irrelevant. Man did not start in the Garden of Eden as described in the bible. Ignore the science and remain willfully ignorant of the truth that is in front of you.

why would you worship someone who deliberately causes global destruction with wars and famine? call it natural selection or “weeding out” but its just not a figure doing it. its humanity as a whole. humanity is god, and we aren’t saving ourselves anytime soon. just live your life the way you see fit. dont let a book tell you that being polite and helpful is the right thing to do, decide that on your own.

wait a second, youre saying this as if you have a greater level of comprehension! lol
some of you are crying because you dont want to be told how to live your life, and some of you are crying because you think there is “incontrovertible scientific evidence” for your side against the other. first man, you need to read or research the Bible before saying things like “how old the bible says the world is”. The Bible does not say how old the world is, people have tried to figure out how old THEY think the Bible says the universe is, but the Bible does not give a specific date. Science also shows that there was in fact a starting place for humanity, which is in northern africa, which is where people have been saying the Garden of Eden use to be. The Bible is full of relevant historical occurrences, you just haven’t looked at it yet.

and here’s the main problem with the atheist type, “live your life the way you want”…”dont listen to the bible”. always calling out Christians as being contradictory and hypocritical, and then in the same comment, you do those exact same things. do you not see anything wrong here people?

But what if the Bible IS Gods inspired Word? What if Jesus IS the only way into heaven, like He said?
I guarentee the devil loves it when people don’t want to search out the truth and just “go with the flow”

True dat.

Is that why the ONE country in the history of mankind that was started because of God is the most wealthy, peacful nation(America)?

Also, almost every orginisation in the world that was made to help the needy is Christ based. You can’t use the examples of cults that have gone far away from the teachings of Christ as examples of christianity. Lots of people have done lots of bad things in the name of Christ, but that doesn’t mean Jesus or His teachings are wrong

Vote for Jesus. All other leaders will let you down

Dear Topher,

Why is it that whenever people site the dead sea scrolls and prophecies they just say “specifics,” but never care to say what those specifics were? I’ve read some of those prophecies and they were extremely vague and could be applied to many different situations. Evolution is based on exhaustive studies of present day reality that anyone can go out and see for themselves. Do you think god created every different breed of dog? No. There is a well documented evolutionary tree showing how every breed, from chihuahuas to great danes, evolved from a common ancestor with the wolf. This all happened within hundreds of years. Is it really that implausible that the diversity we see throughout our world evolved over BILLIONS of years?

jihad,

notice that there are a lot more christians telling atheists what do do than the other way around. I’m an atheist, and while religious people annoy me, I don’t tell them to become atheist, i just let them do as they please. whether they are religious or not isn’t gonna change the fact that when it’s over, its’s over, so who cares if they want to be religious cuz it makes them feel better?

*cite

bmx + bibles = good times.

by the way, gravity is a theory too. do you not believe in that either?

why do americans have such big jesus boners?

religion is the cause all war, large scale violence and hatred.

Hey Will,
You talked about all the problems with the King James translation of the Bible, claiming that there were 70,000 mistakes in it. And you used this to say,”maybe the whole point of Gods plan was twisted and lost somehow”.
Well every Bible teacher I know has learned Greek and Hebrew so that they can go back and check the original writtings, so that they do NOT lose Gods point! You said you went to Bible college?
Most of all the important points that the Bible makes are repeated over, and over again and are SO clear that a retard would have to try to mis-translate it.

You said you don’t believe that God would punish your mates because the are “good people”. But the Bible is VERY clear that there is none that are rightous and that we have ALL sinned and fall short from Gods requirements! God knows This and because He loves us SO MUCH He became a man and died on the cross in our place! If we just choose to believe in Him and repent(turn from our sin) and follow Him we do not need to be punished for our sin! The entire Bible revolves around this one thing — Jesus is our Saviour— If you don’t see that then I would beg you to really study the actual Word of God. Isn’t it better to actually study the Bible, not what critics have to say about it?

Dogs are probably one of the worst examples used to prove evolution. any breed of dog can be made from the wolf by isolating information, in other words loosing some information and concentrating other. like for chihuahuas breeding the smallest wolf with another small wolf until all the big gene for the wolf disappears. but once it becomes a chihuahua it can NEVER be bred into a wolf again because of it missing the big gene. therefore wolfs carry more genes than every other type of dog making your “well documented evolutionary tree showing every breed” : a well documented Devolutionary tree showing every breed.

Will if you dont want your mates to be punished, you should tell them about jesus since you claim to know whats up. oh and only because we dont like something doesnt change the facts.

Yo Will, we are all evil to the core and only Jesus can save us. You should tell your mates about Jesus. oh and only because we dont like something doesnt change the facts. :)

jihad,
maybe christians share the Truth with you because they found that the Truth is Jesus Christ. If we really believe that apart from Jesus is death, then don’t you think we would want to share the Truth with others? To not share that Truth would be complete hate

^^^^
lol nvm I like yours way better lmao

Dear Steven,

Thanks for showing us an example of natural selection, dogs changing into more dogs. I’m tired of people using natural selection to try and prove evolution. oh wait, just add a few billion years and that answers everything! duh! and another thing, Gravity is a law, nice effort in trying to make evolution sound as factual as gravity.
and i’m not telling people NOT to believe in evolution, i’m just pointing out the faults, trying to make you think a little more. its funny that you say there’s more christians telling atheists what to do than the other way around, because whenever these discussions pop up on the site, there are always a ton of atheists spouting out hate and maybe 3 Christians trying to hold their ground.
I challenge you to start watching shows about the big bang and evolution a little more clearly. You will find that they use a lot of words like “probably” indicating that what they are saying, is in fact, not a fact. :)

no jihad theory is just that: theory. no truth. fucking dumbass.

was that for Steven?
i’m glad that guys like you and Mr. Andrus are sharing the truth here ever so nicely because i’ll admit that i can be a d-bag when it comes to this subject. it’s hard for me to see so many people spouting hate and lies towards Christ, and i’m sure you are too, i just want these people to know that what they believe is not exactly as sound as they think. science only gets you so far with both sides, the rest is faith.

* sure its the same for you
not “you are too”
sorry

hey: the idea that the wolf has every gene that every dog has plus more is absurd. obviously my point was that people took certain individuals in a population w/ certain characteristics and bred them together to enhance those characteristics, which is what you were saying. BUT how do you think those certain individuals developed those characteristics? Random mutation, which is the source of genetic diversity. Therefore, the wolf’s genetic code is not like a master key but more of a starting point. For one example, consider the smaller stature of domestic dogs. The reason for this is not because of “breeding with the smallest wolf with another small wolf until all the big gene for the wold disappears,” but a variance at the gene for insulin growth factor. (Read this report if you don’t believe me: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070405-small-dogs.html ) Anyway, my point is that species change through genetic diversity, not because god decided to grace your great aunt with a yorkie. There is no such thing as de-evolution; every change in genetic make-up is evolution (whether its advantageous, deleterious, or neutral). I am a biochemistry major at the University of Washington, I’ve taken enough classes on this shit to know what I’m talking about.

jihad: the difference between scientists and creationists is that scientists are not arrogant enough to say that they know something as mysterious as the origin of the universe or life for a fact. you’re right that gravity is labeled a law, but we still cannot say for 100% certainty that it is the correct explanation, we can only say that it can be applied to results we find. furthermore, it only applies to weak gravitational fields, so clearly it does not even tell the whole story. one can never really know what the absolute truth is, but evolution has a lot more evidence backing it than creationism.

@steven

haha…… “I’ve taken enough classes on this s–t to know what I’m talking about.”
So listening to some proffesor that does nothing for a living but tell people things hes been told to read from a text book makes you the expert, huh?

oh ya, my bad. that was meant for Steven

I don’t kneel in worship
I don’t believe in a ghost
I don’t take kindly to judgment
death follows me underground

Thunder and lightning protect me from god
I won’t be skull fucked by faith
I am the upside down cross

Actually, UW is a research university where professors only teach a couple classes so they can spend the rest of their time researching, finding things out for themselves, not just through textbooks. I hope I didn’t offend you by basing what I said on exhaustive study rather than offhand comments I’ve heard throughout my life.

Oh and are you telling me believing a professor reading from a current textbook based on modern science is MORE ignorant than believing a priest reading from a 2000+ year old book based completely on heresay?

*hearsay

i wish “Bible College” taught simple logic.

Just thought you all should know, that neither of the two oldest bibles (approx. 1600 years old) with complete new testaments include the resurrection of Christ. They just end with the tomb being empty. Also, Jesus himself is hardly a “historical figure”, and while there may have been some loony-toon rabbi wandering around the desert then who may have been vaguely similar to the Jesus figure, sure, why not? But definitely no miracle working son of god. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and unfortunately for believers, such evidence does not exist.

Furthermore, as for Jesus being love I offer you:
Mathew 10:34-37 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

And for just a little more bible fun, do you think God is Love? Enjoy this bit:
1 Corinthians 13:4: Love suffereth long, and is kind; love ENVIETH NOTt; love vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up
ok, so Love lasts, it is kind, it is not JEALOUS…etc, however:
Exo 34:14: you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God…
…hmmm so Love is not jealous, but the christian god’s name IS Jealous? Jesus titty-fucking-christ I think we’ve got a problem (I mean aside from the philosophical problem of evil & disease in a “perfectly created world”….speaking of evil, did you all know God sent two bears to kill 42 children for teasing a disciple for being bald, not a joke– 2 Kings 2:23-24)

agree to disagree

Jesus is not a historical fact. The only record of his life is the many different accounts of it in the gospels(and Josephus), all of which were written well after his alleged crucifixion. There is absolutely no Roman record of his life, or his death, even though the Romans were notoriously good record keepers. And many of the things said about the life of Jesus clash with actual history, ie: the Massacre of the Innocents. Believing Jesus is a historical figure is what takes complete blind faith. Read a goddamn book.

Steven, i’m glad to hear you admit that because in all honesty, I ALWAYS see atheists act like their theory of the origins of the universe is 100% FACT. and i believe you when you say Christians do the same. the only way for scientists to know, for a fact, how the universe began is to build a time machine. and i doubt thats ever going to happen.
gravity and evolution are still too different to try and compare.
and genetic mutation is a really sad thing to base evolution on. the chances are so slim, even with billions of years behind it’s back, that it brought us from primordial soup to what we are today. not possible.

Kyle, Jesus was mentioned many times in the Koran too dude. :)
someone should probably take up their own advice, you know, read a book.

@ Steven, glad to see there is someone else who knows enough about evolution to even talk about it, I was going to write a big explanation about science theories, etc. I’m a psych major at a research university, I must say it’s quite painful to hear how ignorant most of these people are… pretty sure I read earlier in this thread that the great flood actually happened.

@ the “it’s just a theory-ists”: Just so you all know, the reason you’ve been sick more than once in your life is because of bacterial evolution… you know how there is a new flu vaccine every year? evolution… If you all care to know how & why we KNOW evolution occurs on a LARGE scale check out talkorigins.org — also just because you all don’t have the most basic of biological understands, has no weight on the validity of the theory which, by the way, in scientific terms means the absolute best predictive model that exists for any given phenomenon (atomic theory, gravitational theory, germ theory, atomic theory, etc etc). Laws, facts, and evidences are supporters of theories. In evolutionary terms, the LAW of Natural selection supports the theory of Evolution.

@ anyone who claims the bible is historical: please take at least one world geography class and world history class. Oh and pay attention. All stories (operative word here: STORIES) are at the very least DECADES removed from the events, and in many cases CENTURIES removed. They were also concocted by individuals who had absolutely no scientific understanding of the world or universe, thought the earth was flat, bats were birds, unicorns & witches were real, and the sun and moon both produced their own light. So it’s safe to say the writers of your holy book were ignoramuses at best. Furthermore your worldview adds NOTHING to our body of knowledge and in fact if we were to believe a word of it would greatly detract from what we now call civilization.

@ anyone who believes the bible: the story of your holy book is schizophrenic, like the rantings and ravings of a madman, totally unfit for worship, and whose putrid rantings are unfit for the sane, moral individual. Allow me to summarize the bible story in very simple terms everyone here should understand:
God created man, but fucked up and people did things god didn’t like, so he killed every single person and animal on the planet but one family and two of every kind of animal. This one family then repopulated the planet though generations of incest, but, over time, since god didn’t bother to fix what he fucked up in the first place people again did things god didn’t like. God then had to impregnate a woman with himself, then sacrifice himself to himself, then because he still never bothered to fix the original fuck up, he still has to come back kill all of us again, except for the true believers…or the good people….or 144,000 people through out all existence….or anyone who calls themselves a christian…or maybe no one.
Good luck with all your nonsense but let me just reiterate here that the oldest complete bibles (approx 1600 years old) DO NOT include the resurrection of Jesus. http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/07/06/ancient.bible.online/index.html

it’s all about the sun..

these fuckers just adopted other aspects from other religions and fucked shit up big time

jihad, you have to remember that scientists don’t pretend to know how exactly life began from a “primordial soup” or if it even did. just because we don’t know the mechanism right now does not mean there isn’t one. we’ve had human bodies to study for hundreds of thousands of years and we are only just now figuring out how they work. figuring out how life started billions of years ago will be a far more difficult task, but we are getting closer to the answer everyday. where everything in the universe came from and what was before, though, i doubt we’ll ever know.

king of ignorant comments, you are wrong on so many levels.
“I’m in college” yadayada, well, I graduated from college, does that make me even more correct?
keep spewing out misinformation, please, you’re only making yourself look bad.
you only listen to what you want to hear, to be a true scientists you need to look at your theory from every angle. don’t be so brainwashed by the one sided articles, the out of context scriptures, even your one sided professors!
keep looking into it, and don’t let your hate take over your thought process, keep an open mind.

they found what looks like an arch…. doesnt mean its noahs arch… haha…

fact.. you wouldnt even know jesus’ name if the catholics didnt decide in 324 that they would crusade and kill those who opposed the new government…

have fun voting for oil tycoons ya loon.

let me guess… you thought it was awesome when 3 of the biggest oil lobbyist were in the white house??

haha… you people are all brain dead.

jihad…. you just got schooled!!! hahahahhaha….

everything he just said was true…. what are you basing your information on????

@ Jihad: Firstly, mentioning that I am a student has nothing to do with the correctness of what I wrote above, which is why it was mentioned to Steven, the point of that was the fact that we are both science majors, so discussions like the one above are especially ludicrous (the only people who use the only a theory argument are scientific illiterates unfit for intellectual discourse). While I don’t know what he is doing, I personally am studying to be a research psychologist focusing on the evolution of cognition, so I can speak with some authority on the topic of Evolution & science in general. Second of all I’m very sorry if you made it out of an institution of higher learning and still have such a poor grasp on very basic, foundational science and critical thinking skills. Thirdly, on the basis of how we got to where we are it moves as such: Big Bang (evidenced by cosmic back ground radiation, galactic red shifting, H/He distribution through out the universe, etc.), immediately following the big bang (arguably at the same time, the physical laws of the universe and time are created), followed by the forming of stars in nebulae (evidenced by current observations of stellar evolution, the interior of stars is also where elements heavier than H or He are formed in a process known as fusion), forming of galaxies as gravity pulls stellar clusters together (evidenced by current observation),formation of planetary systems such as our own from the gravitational collisions of particles left over from the birth of stars (observable/evidenced by geology), from there you have a cooling process occur on the planet Earth, the crust solidifies in the formation of floating plate tectonics, and liquid water appears (from a combination of steam & water molecules trapped in extraplanetary bodies that collided with the Earth, again evidenced by geology, tectonics, etc), at some point around 3 or so billion years ago, very simple inorganic proteins begin self-replication (the science that studies this is known as abiogenesis, and while they haven’t “created” life from non-life in Earth like conditions, they have done it which proves that life can come without “the hand of god”) from this point these simple life forms evolved into plant-like organisms that gain nourishment from photosynthesis, excreting oxygen into our oceans effectively removing the iron (this is why we have iron deposits) and oxygen becomes abundant in both the oceans and air. It is at this point that the other side of the tree of life is able to flourish. With the highly oxygenated waters, adaptation and evolutions explodes in an animal arms race in what was known as the Cambrian Explosion, from here out you have the development of fish, then amphibians, then reptiles, then mammals, monkeys, apes, hominids, contemporary Homo sapiens, and you sitting at your computer confused. This is a very long process, taking 14.5 billion years from start to where you are now.

confused? lol thats a good one. yes i know about all of this, not only did i graduate, but the only programs i ever watch on the television are science programs. these theories are not new to me. but like i said in an earlier comment to somebody else, pay attention to how many times scientists say words like “probably.” meaning that what they are saying is not fact, just an educated guess. but then people like you take these educated guesses and run with them! you just spewed out all of that information as if it were 100% proven fact. did you know that there are scientists out there that will put up very strong arguments against all of the things you have said? did you know that some evolution scientists have gone away from the theory because of it’s impossibilities? but of course you will say something about how they are not “real” scientists (as if you are) just because their educated guesses differ from what you believe. sorry dude, there’s a bunch of holes in your precious theory, and if youre not scared, i dare you to do research against evolution and the big bang theory. if you cant handle this, then maybe science shouldn’t be your field of study.

HaveYouEverBeenWrongBefore? :

Hey, thanks for your reply, and trust me, i hear you. A year ago i would have came up with the same answer, and your not wrong, because it your beliefs and thats fine, im not gonna diss that. I did study Greek myself and yes it does help with the original meaning but as i knew greek and looked at the versions of the bible used today, i could see so clearly that there were big differences so unless everyone learned ancient new testament greek, then we’re really not gonna get the true meaning of what was meant. But remember this, the bible was still written by man, and man has the tendancy to lie, and make mistakes, which is clearly evident in the new test, especially the gospels, now at this point your gonna come back and say that yeah this is done because it was different styles of writting to prove a point that the details were not really important, well to that i say that thats not quite good enough. and to try and explain that to a non believer, your gonna struggle. and another little point just while we are on this, your sayin that even a retard couldn’t miss interpret the bible, well, if your gonna be so CLEAR on what the bible says, what does it say about judging others?! I dont think a retarded person reading this would be very impressed with you as a Christian because of how u made him look. Thats a really good witness to others! But thats my point, Its man and churches that has got it so wrong, your all so good at using Jargon (hey… your included in this too) but dont actually know what it means, you regurgitate it from the pastor on a sunday morning and you dont really know what it all means. Yeah you get the drift but really do you think that to a non christian using words and terms like the church does is gonna have any real effect on them? hell no, the church is so unrelevant to todays society, thats why when a couple of videos of BMX’ers preaching this jargon, there are a rediculous high number of comments that are so negative, and let me say that the comments made are what you should be reading, its the critics that we can learn from, its called having an open mind! And thats what you dont have, its what christains today dont have and thats the problem, if your not in then your out, thats not the message at all and if you think it is then im sorry but i believe you have it confused.

Believe as you will but… :

Hey man, i agree with what your saying about extraordinary events needing extraordinary proof, but its undeniable that Jesus was a historical figure. However, its interesting that you mention that there could have been parallels between some other person who may have lived and professed to do wonderful things, in fact in egypt a thousand years previous to Jesus there was such a person and the similarities between his story and that of jesus’ is quite remarkable. this is why i say that a big part of the bible was beefed up and inaccurate. I just find it really hard to understand why christians tpday try soooooo hard to defend something that is inaccurate, not 100% proven, so dependant on so many variables and expect others to join in on that. We are living in an age that needs to have a good bit of evidence, call it scientific or whatever but its true.

i put the question out to people reading this: Do you believe that there is a god/a higher power or something bigger than us that created what we have, not in the sense of the bible or jesus but just something?

truth….unfortunatley

if creationism is so perfect, why is childbirth so animal-like???

all animals.. including humans have vaginas…. why so similar?

and why do we have wizdom teeth??? they dont even fit in our mouths… maybe our jaws were bigger at one point???

I hope you don’t get your science info from tv programs that sensationalize, misrepresent, & skew that actual science to make it more user friendly to the ignorant masses. So I’ll be brief in my response. For the Big Bang: We have the evidence, we win. For evolution: We have the fossils, we win. Sure there are holes, but none are problematic, it’s just like missing fossil here, missing fossil there, but fossils are not necessary to prove evolution. Now that we have the human and chip gene sequences mapped, we know for 100% certain that we shared a common ancestor several million years ago (I think 6 but I could be wrong). We also know through gene sequencing that we shared a common ancestor with every living thing on the planet, because all life flourished from a single organism 3-4 billion years ago. Aside from the fossil record, and gene sequencing, there is also the geologic record which also supports a multi-billion year transitional process. As for “evidences” against Big Bang & Evolution, for me to take you seriously you’ll have to present me with contemporary peer reviewed journal articles from respectable journals, but don’t worry I won’t hold my breath, because they don’t exist. If these are the types of critical thinking skills you learned in college, I suggest you get a refund.

Teach it bro.
God Bless you, keep up the faith.

Christianity and most popular religions of our time are pretty good copies of the Egyptian gods and beliefs that were made up in accordance with movements in the stars. For example, take the story of Horus the sun god. His “life” was pretty much like Jesus’s…. except he “lived” 1000′s of years before Jesus. And what was Horus? A personification for the sun. And his life goes along with the movements of the sun. In other words, all a story that helps limit humanity and keep us under control.

Whether you understand this or not christianity isnt a religion, its a relationship and a way of life. i

Amen Vic, keeping preaching Gods word!

Man this JESUS is real and HE is the truth,. i was saved in a prison cell serving five years for two robberies i committed.When i finally came to the end of myself and i had nothing r no one to stand on, then i called on this GOD , where ever HE was, in another reality. And this GOD came into my life and radically changed me instantly. A robber, a drug addict , a gang member and everything else. He suddenly became very real not in sum other reality but here now in this life..It was better than any drug could ever make me feel. For the first time i saw life.i understood what love was.The reasons for being.I know this JESUS is alive and far more real than anything in this world. You see theres more evidence for GOD than could be wrote down on paper or remembered in the brain, Some so called atheist and such would rather deny GODs exidence then follow HIS laws. Why would a theif belive in a GOD would says don’t steal , r a murderer , r a adulterer, r a pornographer. Men would rather deny the truth then obey it. Men hate good because there deeds r evil. Not that only but the fact that they can’t change it! They can’t stop anything evil they do! How do the stars and planets hang on nothing?, where does the east and the west begin? r what was made first?do you know? How does the brain work? Whats in your own heart, do you know that man? While men think up foolish theorys about evolution and life on unseen planets billions of galaxies away, they don’t even know there own hearts! How foolish is that! You can imagine some god of your own mind but you don’t even know yourself! GOD said HE made man in HIS image not vice versa. GOD is real and HE loves you so much, HE sent HIS SON to die for your sins that you can’t change. It’s a historical fact. How can you deny GOD HIS self and think you can find another way to HIM. That is foolishnes! Man is so crooked that a loving GOD who let HIS SON die for there sin so they can be healed, a GOD of such peace who healed the lame , opened deaf ears had compassion on orphans and widows and the hurt and the lost, in the eyes of the world is evil. But they turn around and murder innocent babies through abortion, teach our children lies through the media, detroy lives and families. How foolish is that . You cant preach JESUS because your wrong but you can teach a little girl to have an abortion, how crooked and evil . Open your eyes and seek truth! One day GOD will judge man for there wicked deeds, HE let HIS SON die for each of you,JESUS DIDN’T COME TO SEND YOU TO HELL HE CAME TO SAVE YOU FROM IT! JOHN 3:17 It simple think about it , think of all the evil thoughts you’ve thought, things so evil you would tell no one! Still think your good enough to go to heaven. Your not. Neather am i. Its easy i’m willing to help anyone who want truth anyone who wants GOD! you don’t have to be in a church building you can be reading this now r riding r anywhere and you can be saved…talk to GOD from your real heart, confess your sins and the LORDSHIP of HIS son JESUS , and HE promises HIS self HE’ll come and transform your life and you’ll know the creater of the universe. This is real talk GOD is real and no one can change HIM HE is who HE is…We dont make GOD HE makes us!….GOD bles you all davebalkum@yahoo.com davebalkum on myspace

and by the way the big bang theory is still that a THEORY and there r no transitional fossils on record darwin lost and proved is own theory wrong, infact before darwin practically the intire world believed in the existence of a god r creater, thats why every culture has a religion.

dave, i think you are a perfect example of backwards evolution. could you be more wrong?

stupid fucking people!!!
an fuck off with that religious crap
666